Home > Banking Information & Regulation > Public Meeting Transcripts > PMT - Agendas August 13, 1998
Public Meeting Transcripts
Public Meeting Regarding Banc One and First Chicago
Thursday, August 13, 1998
Transcript of Panel Eight
12 MR. BUZZA: I am John Buzza, Pastor of Hope 13 Presbyterian Church in Springfield, Illinois. I am 14 here as a part of the Central Illinois Organizing 15 Project, and I am here because I care about my 16 city. 17 A busload of us from Central Illinois have 18 come here because we are deeply concerned about the 19 proposed merger between Banc One and 20 First Chicago. 21 Banc One has an extremely poor record of 22 making loans to low and moderate income residents 23 in Central Illinois. 24 I would like you to look at this map 136 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 showing the 1996 aggregate owner-occupied housing 2 loans made in the city where I live, Springfield, 3 Illinois. 4 The census tracts in solid red received 5 less than $100,000 per tract. Those outlined in 6 red received only slightly more. By contrast, the 7 solid green tracts received loans between 1.5 and 8 $3 million per tract. My city is only as healthy 9 as its least healthy neighborhood, and Census Tract 10 14 got no loans last year at all. 11 Home ownership improves property, improves 12 value, improves people's lives, and Banc One has 13 chosen to eliminate home ownership and home 14 improvement from whole sections of our city. 15 In addition, Banc One's record of loans to 16 African Americans is reprehensible and 17 indefensible. In 1996, Banc One under performed in 18 the market to African Americans in the following 19 areas: Home mortgages, home improvement loans and 20 refinancing. 21 Our point here today is to let you know 22 that what is happening in Milwaukee is not 23 happening in Central Illinois, and we would like a 24 meeting with Mr. John McCoy to help facilitate how 137 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 Banc One can help in 1999 in Central Illinois. 2 I thank you for your time. 3 MS. SMITH: Thank you very much. 4 Mr. Heuerman. 5 MR. HEUERMAN: Jack Cramer-Heuerman. I'm a 6 United Methodist pastor from Champaign-Urbana, 7 Illinois, also a part of the same organization, and 8 I wish to address some remarks related to the 9 Community Reinvestment Act. 10 The Central Illinois Organizing Project 11 has had an initial meeting with Banc One related to 12 the Community Reinvestment Act in terms of some 13 particular proposals for communities in 14 Bloomington-Normal, Illinois, Springfield, 15 Illinois, Champaign-Urbana, Illinois. We presented 16 some needs, looking again for that kind of valued 17 corporate partner sort of unique in creative use of 18 the Community Reinvestment Act funds, working 19 cooperatively to address some basic human needs. 20 It's our understanding that the Community 21 Reinvestment Act has a standard that those funds 22 need to benefit low income persons, and all of our 23 proposals certainly meet that standard. 24 What we talked about in Bloomington-Normal 138 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 is a project called Partners for Community that 2 addresses the domestic violence issue from the side 3 of working men in particular involved in the 4 domestic violence issues, a neighborhood health 5 clinic in Springfield, Illinois again in some of 6 those census tracts underserved in a number of ways 7 that would particularly address the low and 8 moderate income person's health needs in their 9 community and access nearby to those, in 10 Champaign-Urbana, the Center for Women in 11 Transition that deals specifically with women and 12 children transitioning from homelessness to 13 self-sufficiency. These are basic human needs that 14 can be met through the Community Reinvestment Act, 15 housing, health, safe neighborhoods. 16 We know that Banc One has worked with the 17 Arizona Diamond Backs stadium for leisure activity, 18 and we celebrate, and we also want to work together 19 as that corporate partner addressing basic human 20 needs. 21 Thank you. 22 MS. SMITH: Thank you. 23 Mr. Matejka. 24 MR. MATEJKA: Thank you. Good morning. My 139 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 name's Mike Matejka, Second Ward Alderman for 2 Bloomington, Illinois, also with the AFLCIO in the 3 city. 4 I appreciate your patience here today 5 because I've sat in that chair. 6 I brought a few props with me. Brought my 7 money bag. This is from Marine Bank which is 8 Banc One which is American State Bank. As we know, 9 those banks merge all the time because that's what 10 it's all about, two-and-a-half-by-six-inch strips 11 of paper. 12 If we've got these 13 two-and-a-half-inch-by-six-inch green strips, we 14 can do a lot, but if we don't have these things, we 15 can't get very far in this society. 16 According to the government, you would 17 characterize me as a low to moderate 18 European-American living in a slum-like area. 19 That's what I'm characterized as in this society. 20 Let me tell you about that slum-like area 21 I live in. It's actually an area of single family 22 homes racially integrated where people go to work 23 every day and do their jobs and we can get these 24 strips of green paper to take care of ourselves, 140 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 take care of our families, to buy gas, to feed our 2 families, but we need help when we want to buy a 3 home and when we want to improve a home, and 4 Banc One is not there to help us in that process. 5 When I look at statistics under the 6 Community Reinvestment Act of what Banc One does in 7 Bloomington, Illinois, it's pretty disappointing. 8 I look at 1996, and I see that 272 affluent white 9 families got loans but only ten African American 10 families could get a loan, and of those ten African 11 American families, only one was a low income family 12 or two of those were low income families who got 13 less than $14,000 from Banc One. 14 Our area is a prosperous area. State Farm 15 Insurance is there, and Banc One moved its market 16 ratio from four percent to nine percent in 1995 and 17 '96, but at the same time, they quit giving loans 18 in my area. We went from 79 loans to 54 loans, but 19 they more than doubled their loans in the affluent 20 areas of town. 21 We're asking Banc One not to shut out the 22 working class family, not to shut out us folks 23 characterized as low to moderate income folks 24 living in a slum-like area. Give us access to 141 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 credit to. 2 And the pattern from Banc One in the last 3 few years is to shut us out of the process. We 4 want them involved, want them involved in our 5 neighborhoods, and we are here to protest this 6 merger until we see the Community Reinvestment Act 7 is going to be lived up to. 8 I thank you for your time today. 9 MR. ERICKSON: I'm pleased to share my view of 10 what's a real concern on my part. I'm Reverend 11 Joel Erickson, Pastor at Resurrection Lutheran 12 Church in Bloomington. 13 And my concern is where are the people 14 from Banc One? I just want to know is there anyone 15 from Banc One here? Is there anyone from Banc One 16 here? 17 Okay. 18 We'd like to say that the question that we 19 have asked as we have negotiated and wanted to talk 20 to the people of Banc One is we want to know where 21 John McCoy is, Mr. McCoy. We wanted to speak to 22 him because in our negotiating with National 23 Citicorp we challenged the merger of National 24 Citicorp with First of America, and as a result of 142 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 that challenge, Dave Deberco, the CEO of that bank, 2 came and talked to us along with Danny Cameron, the 3 Vice President. We know them personally, we've 4 talked about them, and we value that relationship, 5 and we've built a relationship with them. 6 And we're wondering where is the CEO from 7 Banc One because what's necessary is for us to 8 develop a relationship because we're the ones that 9 own the homes, we're the ones that live on the 10 streets, we're the ones that buy the groceries. 11 This is our community, and we want a relationship 12 with the leaders of this bank. And there's been no 13 talk. And we need to make those kinds of 14 connections. 15 And we have a good relationship and do 16 know Dave Deberco and Danny Cameron of NCC, and 17 they're doing fine. They've not suffered as a 18 result of our relationship. We have a good 19 relationship with them, and that's what we're 20 expecting from Banc One. 21 You notice we have a wanted poster for 22 Mr. John McCoy. Why doesn't this man want to meet 23 us? We want to meet with him, we want to talk with 24 him and express the concerns that have been shared 143 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 here at this table, and we want a good relationship 2 where we can build a community that's positive 3 because we're the ones living in the local 4 communities. 5 Our concerns is as the mergers take place, 6 people move further away from our community, and we 7 represent Bloomington-Normal, Peoria, Springfield, 8 Decatur, Champaign-Urbana, this whole region. Its 9 concern is that we reach out and respond to the 10 needs of a community, and that's where we're coming 11 from is our own local community. 12 So we hope to see Mr. John McCoy present 13 with us, talk with us, and then we'll see whether 14 that bank is really one that's desired to be 15 connected with the community of our region. 16 And we're very thankful, very privileged 17 that we have an opportunity to express this 18 concern. 19 As a Pastor of a local congregation of 500 20 members, I want you to know it matters to us that 21 organizations such as banks are responsive to the 22 local community. 23 Thank you very much. 24 MR. ALVAREZ: A question for Reverend Buzza. 144 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 You showed us your chart. I'm not 2 familiar with the Springfield area. Could you 3 explain a bit about the census tracts? 4 The ones, for example, that received no 5 loans, what characteristics are those? 6 MR. BUZZA: They are primarily the ones in the 7 center of Springfield occupied primarily by low and 8 moderate income families, and most of our ethnic 9 minority families live in those census tracts. 10 The only public housing area is in Census 11 Tract -- Rudy, help me -- 15. 12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: 12 or 14. 13 MR. BUZZA: And the area around the outside is 14 the fast growing area particularly to the west side 15 and down in the corner here around what is Lake 16 Springfield. Census Tract 31 is where the figures 17 are 1.5 to $3 million of loans in that tract. 18 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. I have a question. 19 Can you say the level of home ownership in 20 those tracts that got no loans, and also could you 21 describe if there's like home sales, because I'm 22 not as familiar with Springfield as well? 23 MR. BUZZA: Well, this just has to do with the 24 number of loans that Banc One made last year for 145 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 mortgages, for home improvement and for refinancing 2 and, it's by income in those areas, but those of us 3 who live in Springfield also realize that the 4 majority of our African American neighbors live in 5 that central neighborhood that is either red or 6 red-and-white striped. 7 Have I answered your question? 8 MS. WILLIAMS: I guess as far as like the level 9 of owner occupied, is that a 20 percent in that 10 area or 40 percent or less? 11 MR. BUZZA: I'm not sure I know the answer in 12 terms of statistics, but many of the homes in that 13 area are now rental property and have been 14 purchased by non-resident rental owners, and that 15 is one of our great concerns because the upkeep of 16 those houses does not match what homeowners do when 17 they have the chance to own it themselves. 18 MS. SMITH: Thank you very much. 19 MR. MATEJKA: Could I ask our folks who came up 20 with us, drove up with us today, to stand up? 21 MS. SMITH: Please. 22 we had a panel this morning that didn't 23 show up, unless they have come in. I don't think 24 they have. 146 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 Let me say the names in case there has 2 been any confusion. James Hall, Robert Hawhtorne, 3 the Reverend Carey Long, Patrick Quinn, James 4 Taylor. 5 We will want if they come this afternoon 6 to work them into the schedule, but we may want 7 to -- would we want to start a little earlier than 8 1:00? We're scheduled to reconvene at 1:00. If we 9 have the next -- if we can either have or can 10 construct a panel starting at a quarter of 1:00, we 11 would like to do that. 12 So those of you who are scheduled for a 13 later panel but who are here now, you might check 14 in with our registration people and see what we can 15 do to work you up a little earlier into the 16 schedule. 17 So thank you very much. We'll see you. 18 I am supposed to announce to keep your 19 name tags on so that you can get back into the 20 conference center if you go out. 21 Thank you. 22 (Whereupon, a short recess 23 was taken.) 24 MS. SMITH: I think we're ready to start with 147 McCORKLE COURT REPORTERS, INC. CHICAGO, ILLINOIS - (312) 263-0052 1 our next panel. This is Panel 9, and we're going 2 to start with Ms. Cannon. You'll need to pull the 3 mic. 4 MS. CANNON: Thank you. 5 MS. SMITH: I will -- in case -- well, let's 6 see, since many of you drove -- were driving this 7 morning, you didn't hear my announcements, but I 8 will -- we have two timekeepers. They will give a 9 signal when you have one minute remaining and then 10 they will hold up another card when your time has 11 expired. 12 Sometimes you might try looking up every 13 once in a while, but if you miss it, we'll give you 14 a few extra seconds, but then we go to audio and 15 we'll give you a little musical note. 16 MS. CANNON: That means you finished. 17 REVEREND LONG: In more ways than one. 18 MS. SMITH: So Ms. Cannon?
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