Public Meeting Regarding First Chicago and Banc One
Thursday, August 13, 1998
Transcript of Panel Eight
12 MR. BUZZA: I am John Buzza, Pastor of Hope
13 Presbyterian Church in Springfield, Illinois. I am
14 here as a part of the Central Illinois Organizing
15 Project, and I am here because I care about my
16 city.
17 A busload of us from Central Illinois have
18 come here because we are deeply concerned about the
19 proposed merger between Banc One and
20 First Chicago.
21 Banc One has an extremely poor record of
22 making loans to low and moderate income residents
23 in Central Illinois.
24 I would like you to look at this map
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1 showing the 1996 aggregate owner-occupied housing
2 loans made in the city where I live, Springfield,
3 Illinois.
4 The census tracts in solid red received
5 less than $100,000 per tract. Those outlined in
6 red received only slightly more. By contrast, the
7 solid green tracts received loans between 1.5 and
8 $3 million per tract. My city is only as healthy
9 as its least healthy neighborhood, and Census Tract
10 14 got no loans last year at all.
11 Home ownership improves property, improves
12 value, improves people's lives, and Banc One has
13 chosen to eliminate home ownership and home
14 improvement from whole sections of our city.
15 In addition, Banc One's record of loans to
16 African Americans is reprehensible and
17 indefensible. In 1996, Banc One under performed in
18 the market to African Americans in the following
19 areas: Home mortgages, home improvement loans and
20 refinancing.
21 Our point here today is to let you know
22 that what is happening in Milwaukee is not
23 happening in Central Illinois, and we would like a
24 meeting with Mr. John McCoy to help facilitate how
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1 Banc One can help in 1999 in Central Illinois.
2 I thank you for your time.
3 MS. SMITH: Thank you very much.
4 Mr. Heuerman.
5 MR. HEUERMAN: Jack Cramer-Heuerman. I'm a
6 United Methodist pastor from Champaign-Urbana,
7 Illinois, also a part of the same organization, and
8 I wish to address some remarks related to the
9 Community Reinvestment Act.
10 The Central Illinois Organizing Project
11 has had an initial meeting with Banc One related to
12 the Community Reinvestment Act in terms of some
13 particular proposals for communities in
14 Bloomington-Normal, Illinois, Springfield,
15 Illinois, Champaign-Urbana, Illinois. We presented
16 some needs, looking again for that kind of valued
17 corporate partner sort of unique in creative use of
18 the Community Reinvestment Act funds, working
19 cooperatively to address some basic human needs.
20 It's our understanding that the Community
21 Reinvestment Act has a standard that those funds
22 need to benefit low income persons, and all of our
23 proposals certainly meet that standard.
24 What we talked about in Bloomington-Normal
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1 is a project called Partners for Community that
2 addresses the domestic violence issue from the side
3 of working men in particular involved in the
4 domestic violence issues, a neighborhood health
5 clinic in Springfield, Illinois again in some of
6 those census tracts underserved in a number of ways
7 that would particularly address the low and
8 moderate income person's health needs in their
9 community and access nearby to those, in
10 Champaign-Urbana, the Center for Women in
11 Transition that deals specifically with women and
12 children transitioning from homelessness to
13 self-sufficiency. These are basic human needs that
14 can be met through the Community Reinvestment Act,
15 housing, health, safe neighborhoods.
16 We know that Banc One has worked with the
17 Arizona Diamond Backs stadium for leisure activity,
18 and we celebrate, and we also want to work together
19 as that corporate partner addressing basic human
20 needs.
21 Thank you.
22 MS. SMITH: Thank you.
23 Mr. Matejka.
24 MR. MATEJKA: Thank you. Good morning. My
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1 name's Mike Matejka, Second Ward Alderman for
2 Bloomington, Illinois, also with the AFLCIO in the
3 city.
4 I appreciate your patience here today
5 because I've sat in that chair.
6 I brought a few props with me. Brought my
7 money bag. This is from Marine Bank which is
8 Banc One which is American State Bank. As we know,
9 those banks merge all the time because that's what
10 it's all about, two-and-a-half-by-six-inch strips
11 of paper.
12 If we've got these
13 two-and-a-half-inch-by-six-inch green strips, we
14 can do a lot, but if we don't have these things, we
15 can't get very far in this society.
16 According to the government, you would
17 characterize me as a low to moderate
18 European-American living in a slum-like area.
19 That's what I'm characterized as in this society.
20 Let me tell you about that slum-like area
21 I live in. It's actually an area of single family
22 homes racially integrated where people go to work
23 every day and do their jobs and we can get these
24 strips of green paper to take care of ourselves,
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1 take care of our families, to buy gas, to feed our
2 families, but we need help when we want to buy a
3 home and when we want to improve a home, and
4 Banc One is not there to help us in that process.
5 When I look at statistics under the
6 Community Reinvestment Act of what Banc One does in
7 Bloomington, Illinois, it's pretty disappointing.
8 I look at 1996, and I see that 272 affluent white
9 families got loans but only ten African American
10 families could get a loan, and of those ten African
11 American families, only one was a low income family
12 or two of those were low income families who got
13 less than $14,000 from Banc One.
14 Our area is a prosperous area. State Farm
15 Insurance is there, and Banc One moved its market
16 ratio from four percent to nine percent in 1995 and
17 '96, but at the same time, they quit giving loans
18 in my area. We went from 79 loans to 54 loans, but
19 they more than doubled their loans in the affluent
20 areas of town.
21 We're asking Banc One not to shut out the
22 working class family, not to shut out us folks
23 characterized as low to moderate income folks
24 living in a slum-like area. Give us access to
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1 credit to.
2 And the pattern from Banc One in the last
3 few years is to shut us out of the process. We
4 want them involved, want them involved in our
5 neighborhoods, and we are here to protest this
6 merger until we see the Community Reinvestment Act
7 is going to be lived up to.
8 I thank you for your time today.
9 MR. ERICKSON: I'm pleased to share my view of
10 what's a real concern on my part. I'm Reverend
11 Joel Erickson, Pastor at Resurrection Lutheran
12 Church in Bloomington.
13 And my concern is where are the people
14 from Banc One? I just want to know is there anyone
15 from Banc One here? Is there anyone from Banc One
16 here?
17 Okay.
18 We'd like to say that the question that we
19 have asked as we have negotiated and wanted to talk
20 to the people of Banc One is we want to know where
21 John McCoy is, Mr. McCoy. We wanted to speak to
22 him because in our negotiating with National
23 Citicorp we challenged the merger of National
24 Citicorp with First of America, and as a result of
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1 that challenge, Dave Deberco, the CEO of that bank,
2 came and talked to us along with Danny Cameron, the
3 Vice President. We know them personally, we've
4 talked about them, and we value that relationship,
5 and we've built a relationship with them.
6 And we're wondering where is the CEO from
7 Banc One because what's necessary is for us to
8 develop a relationship because we're the ones that
9 own the homes, we're the ones that live on the
10 streets, we're the ones that buy the groceries.
11 This is our community, and we want a relationship
12 with the leaders of this bank. And there's been no
13 talk. And we need to make those kinds of
14 connections.
15 And we have a good relationship and do
16 know Dave Deberco and Danny Cameron of NCC, and
17 they're doing fine. They've not suffered as a
18 result of our relationship. We have a good
19 relationship with them, and that's what we're
20 expecting from Banc One.
21 You notice we have a wanted poster for
22 Mr. John McCoy. Why doesn't this man want to meet
23 us? We want to meet with him, we want to talk with
24 him and express the concerns that have been shared
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1 here at this table, and we want a good relationship
2 where we can build a community that's positive
3 because we're the ones living in the local
4 communities.
5 Our concerns is as the mergers take place,
6 people move further away from our community, and we
7 represent Bloomington-Normal, Peoria, Springfield,
8 Decatur, Champaign-Urbana, this whole region. Its
9 concern is that we reach out and respond to the
10 needs of a community, and that's where we're coming
11 from is our own local community.
12 So we hope to see Mr. John McCoy present
13 with us, talk with us, and then we'll see whether
14 that bank is really one that's desired to be
15 connected with the community of our region.
16 And we're very thankful, very privileged
17 that we have an opportunity to express this
18 concern.
19 As a Pastor of a local congregation of 500
20 members, I want you to know it matters to us that
21 organizations such as banks are responsive to the
22 local community.
23 Thank you very much.
24 MR. ALVAREZ: A question for Reverend Buzza.
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1 You showed us your chart. I'm not
2 familiar with the Springfield area. Could you
3 explain a bit about the census tracts?
4 The ones, for example, that received no
5 loans, what characteristics are those?
6 MR. BUZZA: They are primarily the ones in the
7 center of Springfield occupied primarily by low and
8 moderate income families, and most of our ethnic
9 minority families live in those census tracts.
10 The only public housing area is in Census
11 Tract -- Rudy, help me -- 15.
12 AUDIENCE MEMBER: 12 or 14.
13 MR. BUZZA: And the area around the outside is
14 the fast growing area particularly to the west side
15 and down in the corner here around what is Lake
16 Springfield. Census Tract 31 is where the figures
17 are 1.5 to $3 million of loans in that tract.
18 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. I have a question.
19 Can you say the level of home ownership in
20 those tracts that got no loans, and also could you
21 describe if there's like home sales, because I'm
22 not as familiar with Springfield as well?
23 MR. BUZZA: Well, this just has to do with the
24 number of loans that Banc One made last year for
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1 mortgages, for home improvement and for refinancing
2 and, it's by income in those areas, but those of us
3 who live in Springfield also realize that the
4 majority of our African American neighbors live in
5 that central neighborhood that is either red or
6 red-and-white striped.
7 Have I answered your question?
8 MS. WILLIAMS: I guess as far as like the level
9 of owner occupied, is that a 20 percent in that
10 area or 40 percent or less?
11 MR. BUZZA: I'm not sure I know the answer in
12 terms of statistics, but many of the homes in that
13 area are now rental property and have been
14 purchased by non-resident rental owners, and that
15 is one of our great concerns because the upkeep of
16 those houses does not match what homeowners do when
17 they have the chance to own it themselves.
18 MS. SMITH: Thank you very much.
19 MR. MATEJKA: Could I ask our folks who came up
20 with us, drove up with us today, to stand up?
21 MS. SMITH: Please.
22 we had a panel this morning that didn't
23 show up, unless they have come in. I don't think
24 they have.
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1 Let me say the names in case there has
2 been any confusion. James Hall, Robert Hawhtorne,
3 the Reverend Carey Long, Patrick Quinn, James
4 Taylor.
5 We will want if they come this afternoon
6 to work them into the schedule, but we may want
7 to -- would we want to start a little earlier than
8 1:00? We're scheduled to reconvene at 1:00. If we
9 have the next -- if we can either have or can
10 construct a panel starting at a quarter of 1:00, we
11 would like to do that.
12 So those of you who are scheduled for a
13 later panel but who are here now, you might check
14 in with our registration people and see what we can
15 do to work you up a little earlier into the
16 schedule.
17 So thank you very much. We'll see you.
18 I am supposed to announce to keep your
19 name tags on so that you can get back into the
20 conference center if you go out.
21 Thank you.
22 (Whereupon, a short recess
23 was taken.)
24 MS. SMITH: I think we're ready to start with
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1 our next panel. This is Panel 9, and we're going
2 to start with Ms. Cannon. You'll need to pull the
3 mic.
4 MS. CANNON: Thank you.
5 MS. SMITH: I will -- in case -- well, let's
6 see, since many of you drove -- were driving this
7 morning, you didn't hear my announcements, but I
8 will -- we have two timekeepers. They will give a
9 signal when you have one minute remaining and then
10 they will hold up another card when your time has
11 expired.
12 Sometimes you might try looking up every
13 once in a while, but if you miss it, we'll give you
14 a few extra seconds, but then we go to audio and
15 we'll give you a little musical note.
16 MS. CANNON: That means you finished.
17 REVEREND LONG: In more ways than one.
18 MS. SMITH: So Ms. Cannon?